Linda Rubin & Emma Metcalfe Hurst
Interview for Coming Out of Chaos: A Vancouver Dance Story

September 28, 2020

For more archival materials, see the Linda Rubin, Synergy Movement Workshops Collection

Linda Rubin, Dancer, choreographer, educator, founding Director of Synergy Movement Workshops Inc.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst, Karen Jamieson Dance Archivist/Creative Director of Coming Out of Chaos

This oral history interview has been edited for length, clarity, and accuracy

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: How did you get involved in contemporary dance in Vancouver? Could you please share your dancing story.

Linda Rubin: I didn't study dance as a child. I lived in Foam Lake, a very small town on the prairies in Saskatchewan, and we moved to Vancouver when I was 11. A couple years later, I discovered there's such a thing as ballet and I studied with Kay Armstrong at the B.C. School of Dance for several years. I did many years of international folk dancing. After high school, I went to Israel and I studied at The International Institute for Leadership Training for Youth Leaders for a year. Part of the studies was international music and dance. Within that study, the instructor also introduced us to creative movement, or expressive dance. So, my dancing experience was international folk dance and expressive movement training. After I came back to Canada, I went to the Vancouver School of Art [now Emily Carr University of Art & Design] completing a four year program. Early in my third year, one of my friends came running into the studio and said, "Look, look what I've got here!" and she had a copy of Dance Magazine. There was an advertisement for Martha Graham Summer School, and I thought, Oh, that would be something to do. In the summer, I was going to go train and teach folk dancing in Ontario at a summer institute. I added New York to my plans. So, I got involved in Martha Graham's work through somebody at the art school. I majored in design and graphics, and in our design projects for third and fourth year, we could choose our own projects. I decided that I was going to design improvisational forms. In the art world, in the early ‘60s and mid ‘60s, "Happenings" were happening. That was my inspiration. So, I said: “Okay, there is this new direction and visual artists want to put their body in space and create new events.” Then I pondered... “Well, what's the form? How do people move spontaneously together through space?” And that was my quest! It doesn't happen by chance. I was inspired to research and experiment with how a group of people move spontaneously together in an aware and meaningful way. So, in my third and fourth year of art school, my design project was focused on improvisational movement and developing a language and forms where people could improvise together, and create ensemble movement sensitive to choreographic aesthetics. I was also making music programs, costumes and directing and choreographing for my folk dance company, Nirkoda. In my third year at art school, I discovered contemporary dance in Vancouver, via Norbert Vesak. I knew little about contemporary dance in Vancouver, but he was doing a performance. I went to see it, and I connected with him. He was very interested in working with me because I had gone to New York and studied with Martha Graham. And so Norbert and I became collaborators. I taught at his studio and was his dance partner in many of his choreographies.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Very cool. So, where did you perform your school piece from Vancouver School of Art?

Linda Rubin: Oh, we did several performances at the Playhouse Theatre. The art school, at that time, was right across the street from the Playhouse Theatre. The production was called Visaudium, a multimedia performance. Fred Ames, the principal of the school, who loved dance, encouraged me, and he gave me great opportunities. I would run ideas by him and he wouldsay "Yeah, go do it, go do it. This is fine." I was forever enriched by Fred Ames’s support. He was a very pivotal mentor, who valued the art of dance projects within the visual art world.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Very neat. So then, at that point, you're really thrown into it, and you’d found your community in Vancouver.

Linda Rubin: Right, and before I graduated from the art school, my daily routine was to go to art school in the day, and then I would drive over to West Vancouver where Norbert [Vesak]’s studio was located, and I would either teach a class, or go into rehearsals late at night, then go home, sleep, get up, and go to art school. Repeat. It was an intense schedule. The traffic over Lion’s Gate Bridge wasn't that bad. It was the ‘60s.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: [laughs] Right. A lot of the activities that you've described reminds me of the things that were going on at Intermedia at that time.

Linda Rubin: Intermedia. Yeah. Helen Goodwin, and a dynamic group of artists. I wasn't a member of that group. I observed some rehearsals by invitation from Helen [Goodwin], but I never performed her work. Since we both were involved in creating new performing directions she would say, "Come and take a look at this." I was not involved in Helen’s processes. I was on the periphery. I felt it important to be informed about what new directions were happening at the time.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: I was wondering if you could speak more about your creative relationship with Norbert Vesak?

Linda Rubin: I was attracted to Norbert’s work because he was dancing internationally (Jacob's Pillow and other NYC venues), and he was at the beginnings of developing his dance studio and performing projects. He was very social and accessible. We had long conversations and exchanges of ideas in teaching and choreography. Through Norbert’s guidance and encouragement, I went on to study and perform at Jacob's Pillow. He was always encouraging me, and others, to pursue all opportunities. Norbert was building a company and I was involved at the beginning of his process. He was very generous in discussing, and sharing his new directions, and ways of making them happen. He was very collaborative in rehearsals, often taking choreographic offers made by the dancers. Norbert offered me valuable performance and choreographic opportunities. I choreographed several pieces for his company. I taught classes in the studio’s weekly class schedule, and I often covered for Norbert when he was away choreographing for the Royal Winnipeg Ballet and various Opera companies.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: So, at what point did Synergy begin then?

Linda Rubin: Synergy began in Sept, 1971. In 1968, after I graduated art school, I wanted to intensely study dance and perform. At the end of my third year of art school, I went to New York in the summer and I knew I wanted to immediately move to New York to dance. I seriously considered not finishing my fourth year at the art school as I wanted to head off to New York. I had very good advice and the advice was “Don’t go yet, finish your art school commitment.” I took the advice and finished my fourth year. I accomplished many creative and performing opportunities that year. I then moved to New York. I auditioned for Martha Graham’s scholarships and was successful. I was given free classes but in exchange (actually it was a privilege) I was required to be the demonstrator of the Graham technique in ongoing studio classes. I had scholarships for three years, and scholarship students trained in the company classes. During that time, I performed with many modern companies with various styles ranging from Graham, and Cunningham-based choreography, to the avant-garde movement. An exciting opportunity was returning to Jacob's Pillow, dancing with Norman Walker's Dance Company. Through my art school and New York experiences, I had developed a philosophy that to advance one’s artistry, and to invent, and express freely, a dancer requires improvisational skills, and technical training to support the safe, strong, and full-range of physical expressions. I designed Synergy based upon that philosophy. I delved back into my art school days of improv research, and revived the vocabulary I had designed. My interest in improvisation was directed towards ensemble improvisation. I wasn't specifically training an individual to be a fantastic solo improviser, but to be a contributing creator in the ensemble improvisation. A consequence of doing ensemble work allowed many talented people like Peter Bingham and Lola Ryan to find inspiration, and a base to create their personal artistic directions.

After Norbert Vesak sold his studio business to Anna Wyman, some of my colleagues who were also involved with Norbert were interested in continuing their teaching, and I was inspired to open a studio where we all could continue dancing. My objectives of creating and running a studio included the studying of improvisation as a dance form – which was very unique in 1971. Students could choose their own dance style for their class selection and if they were reluctant regarding improvisation and wanted to do just the technique classes, they could, or vice versa. As you may know, nowadays, the word Synergy is overused, especially as concepts for gas stations [laughs].

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yes, it's been co-opted! [laughs]

Linda Rubin: In 1970, I was doing some reading and I came across the word “synergy” and thought, Well, that's exactly what happens in improvisation work! I did further reading and discovered that the word is also a medical term. I adjusted the definition of Synergy to describe actions related to people. I describe Synergy as: people come together to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate actions.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Did you have any particular themes or objectives you set out to fulfill when you first began Synergy?

Linda Rubin: My basic objective was to create an adult-based studio environment that offered a variety of movement-based disciplines. People could study Ballet, Modern, Jazz, Improv, Tai Chi, or Yoga with professional teachers. The techniques classes had the normal objective of developing technical skills in the various dance styles. The improvisation classes had an objective of experimentation and developing ensemble work. Often, within the improv workshops, there were musicians and dancers collaborating and dancing together. There was certainly a clear objective of experimenting with the synergy between music and dance. Participants really loved to move freely, to share their experiences, and to discuss the process.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: That sounds like a very interdisciplinary space.

Linda Rubin: Yes, that opportunity of interdisciplinary dancing opportunities wasn't happening in Vancouver, that I knew of. I think the USA may have had more interdisciplinary work going on, but not in Vancouver.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: And obviously, in New York, I would assume there was a bit more cross-contamination between disciplines there?

Linda Rubin: Yes, but I did not focus my studies in that direction because that was not why I went to New York. I went to study with esteemed choreographers/artists offering rigorous technical training. I didn't intend to improvise.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah. It wasn't the time for it then.

Linda Rubin: Well, I'd already done many years of improv. I was lacking in technique, I thought. That’s the education I wanted to pursue. In those days, I wanted to develop my professional credibility and I desired a broad education.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: It seems like lineages are quite important too. Going to specific schools says something – not only about your credibility as a dancer, but also the forms that you are taking into your own practice and recycling. Are you still running Synergy?

Linda Rubin: Yes, but it is not a physical space. I still use Synergy as my working name but I never created a Synergy studio space again. I rented many spaces to hold workshops. In my work at the University of Alberta (1993-2008), I had a beautiful dance studio to work in for fifteen years, and it was very comparable to having my own studio. I continued to fulfill contracts under Synergy's name and my public classes were called Synergy. Performances were under the Synergy name i.e. Synergy Performing Association and Synergy Dance Ideas were two names I applied to performing groups. The Covid-19 virus curtailed several scheduled workshops in 2020.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Wow. That’s the first time you've stopped! [laughs]

Linda Rubin: I continue to be involved in projects. I support artists who wish my “outside eye” in their theatre and/or dance processes. I continue inquiring into sources for inspiration for evolving improvisation processes.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: How have you seen Synergy evolve since the time when Peter Bingham and Lola Ryan were dancing with you?

Linda Rubin: During the years that Peter and Lola were dancing at Synergy, I was focused on my commitment in developing an alternate culture in adult dance experiences. I was focused on intricate body work (technique), and “Main Focus” ensemble improvisation. Since then I have continued that work. I have experienced a scope of opportunities that required me to adjust, and evolve my knowledge and methods for very specific needs. These opportunities required me to translate my work in ensemble improvisation, and choreography for contracts in dance studio settings, education, medicine, and theatre. These circumstances always had restrictions that I would not necessarily have experienced running my own private studio. These restrictions stimulated stretching my brain, evolving, and producing solutions that were often outside of my comfort zone. Restrictions stimulated solutions. For example, the director, at UBC Health Sciences, hired me to lead weekly movement therapy sessions. He did not allow me to use the word “energy.” He believed that word was not helpful for patients in that setting. That restriction certainly evolved my range of verbal choices and inspired me to develop more specificity when delivering verbal directions.

Another example was when the head researcher, in the College of Nursing, University Hospital in Saskatoon, knew of my work and she proposed... “I would like to contract you as the movement therapist on a two-year research project - Movement Therapy with Depressed Inpatients.” My response was positive, and I was excited for another challenge and opportunity to apply and evolve my known materials. I had never designed and delivered a two-year clinical medical research project before. Through this opportunity I evolved a deeper empathy in helping people feel healthier through movement, music, and group work. I wrote a multimedia creative dance program for fine arts educators because library resources for teachers were limited. I suppose writing would also be considered an evolution since writing was never a personal objective. The publication is called The Creative Dance Keys.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Oh neat!

Linda Rubin: I wrote the program in ‘91 and it became an approved English and French learning resource for British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan Ministries of Education. That was a product of my teaching in a Fine Arts Elementary School in Saskatoon. In the school, grades K - 8 studied one class a week of dance, drama, music, and art. In the late ‘80s, Saskatchewan Education was implementing a Fine Arts pilot project that focused on bringing the arts into the overall curriculum. The Fine Arts Consultant in Saskatoon hired me to lead In Service Teacher Training on creative dance. In preparation, I asked the consultant, “Let me look at the resources you have.” Oh! They didn't have any inspiring or useful resources. I said, “Okay, well, hey, if I write something for teachers, would you use it?” And she said, “Well, I have to see what it is.” And so I got busy writing the project. It ended up being a multimedia kit. The kit included instructions, vocabulary, music, and video. My intention was to create a product that any teacher would feel equipped with resources to teach. It was translated into French. The second edition was upgraded to CD-ROM and DVD formats. The kit is used in schools across Canada, and the States.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: That must’ve been a huge amount of work to put that together, but what an amazing impact it must’ve made! Going back to Synergy, did you ever consider developing a company?

Linda Rubin: I never wanted to pursue developing an ongoing dance company in the ‘70’s cultural environment. A company requires undivided attention and the execution of specific choreographer’s directions. I was focused on encouraging people to dance together based upon the participant(s) personal drives with my guidance. That changes things, you see?

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: That really does. Especially for that era. Everyone wanted to have a dance company in order to be eligible for grant funding.

Linda Rubin: I basically did not want to have my career depend on government funding. I wished to find alternate ways to work my ideas in a non-traditional setting.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Right. You wanted more freedom?

Linda Rubin: Well, I wanted to be independent. I have received funding for various projects, but I sought funding only because certain talented people, like Peter Bingham and Lola Ryan, were in the classes. Peter and Lola were excelling and advancing. Performing was the natural evolution. I thought, “Okay, I need to get some money, we need to do a performance.” And I would apply for Canada Council, and other funding opportunities.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: I just remembered, I came across something during my readings around an entity that was part of Synergy called the Synergy Performing Association. Could you talk to me about what that was?

Linda Rubin: Synergy Performing Association was the name I used for performance projects. There was one large project, Synergy Weekend Workshops, that I used that name in order to separate the performing group from the ongoing workshop classes. Synergy Performing Association was the name I applied for funding with.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Thanks for clarifying that.

Linda Rubin: We held performances “In Studio.” We had held performances in art galleries and public venues, but eventually I decided that offering intimate studio performances allowed us to experiment as freely as possible. Performing in the studio, or “underground,” gave me a freedom to experiment and to be unbound from the historic definitions of what dance is expected to be, and what, or who should be performing. Many others were in that frame of mind as well. The participants in the classes and many of the people who were performing “In Studio” were not traditional dancers. Some people created careers in dance, but generally most folks were living an active, healthy lifestyle, and wanted to engage in more artistic/expressive physical activities other than sports and fitness.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: You must have seen so many different approaches, and bodies, and skills.

Linda Rubin: Participants included professional people, students, performers, adults of all ages, and abilities. There was a time when Rajneesh devotees would participate in the classes, but most participants were from the general public.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: So, there were spiritual groups who attended?

Linda Rubin: Anyone who wished to dance was welcome to participate in the workshops, and one’s individual spiritual identity was private. Dancing together certainly released a huge boost to one’s spirit – so, I suppose you could say we were a “spirited group.”

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Well, that makes sense. It seems like the connection between body, mind, and spirit was a key part of Synergy.

Linda Rubin: Yes, the workshops emphasized a mind/body/spirit awareness. The technical Body Work classes were structured similarly to a regular dance class format. The classes would include floor, standing, and choreographic sequences. Coordinating breath with the movements was important and a new experience for most. Deep release work, with partners, and massage was unique in those days, and it was very popular. The improv work enhanced one’s ability to interact spontaneously, make choices, and to be bold. Many participants experienced personal expansion and adopted their experiences into their own specific spiritual, life, and career directions. I know that participants nurtured their capacity for trusting their instincts, aesthetics, and physicality.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: It sounds like you created a very low-barrier environment too to enter into dance.

Linda Rubin: Oh, yes! I was adamant that I wanted to develop a non-threatening, and caring style of teaching – non-competitive and quite opposite from my training experiences. In the ‘70s – and I am not exaggerating – there were beginning level classes with thirty-five people registered, with approximately half women and half men participating. People were able to easily access, and find success in the work, and they really enjoyed dancing with each other. Many people formed enduring bonds.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: So, the gender division was really broken down too.

Linda Rubin: I believe that because one could move freely and you could use your natural abilities – especially in the improv work, and you could advance your abilities with studying technical body work and dance training, the workshops inspired more men to become involved in this style of dancing. The workshops were filled with very, very interesting people....all keen on dancing together.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Just because we're already in that era, could you speak a little bit more around what the contemporary dance scene was like in Vancouver during the ‘60s and ‘70s?

Linda Rubin: The contemporary dance scene was young and emerging in the 60’s. Choreographers taught classes and choreographed productions mainly performed in professional theatres. Dancers identified exclusively with their studio of choice, and there was minimal openness, or exchange of dancers between the studios. Studios seemed competitive and exclusive. Norbert Vesak and Paula Ross were the two contemporary dancer artists, with a company, that I am aware of in the ‘60s. In the ‘70s, Paula Ross, Jamie Zagoudakis, Gisa Cole, Harbour Dance Centre, and Anna Wyman were the artists that I was aware of who were developing professional studios and companies. There were younger artists emerging as well, but I can’t contribute any specific details.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: And then I guess at that time Western Front was doing occasional dance workshops too, and bringing people in?

Linda Rubin: Western Front opened in the early ‘70s, and they produced a public program centered on bringing in international artists, musicians, and dancers, like Deborah Hay, to Vancouver. During the days when Synergy was located in Western Front, Synergy dancers would participate in these events as much as possible.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Where did you move Synergy next? The Arcadian Hall?

Linda Rubin: Yes, I renovated the top floor of the Arcadian Hall, and ran Synergy workshops, and performances in the space. After I moved out of the Arcadian Hall, I rented various spaces because I didn't want to commit to an expensive leasehold again. Real estate prices were rising in Vancouver. There was a big shift around 1980 with an abundance of offshore money coming into Vancouver. The rental prices of studio spaces increased dramatically, and I didn't want to take on a financial responsibility that may have required me to operate a “tots to seniors class schedule” in order to cover costs.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Did you have any specific needs for the places that you would rent out? Did you look specifically for sprung floors?

Linda Rubin: All the rental spaces were gymnasiums with sprung wooden floors. Lots of light, lots of space, and sometimes a little kitchen on the side. Free parking as well.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Nice, yeah, without having to be attached to a lease.

Linda Rubin: A lease is the best situation because that space becomes an extension of self and company, and a place for others to work in as well. Renting spaces per hour may seem less professional or sophisticated, but I felt that was best for me at that time. Running a workshop/studio that was transient was quite unusual at that time. Also, I had met a man who lived in Saskatchewan, and we wanted to raise a family. I was born and raised in Saskatchewan, and I loved the big open spaces. Moving away from Vancouver was a big move, and I knew that my interests in my work would not disappear. I felt that “change” can be an “opportunity.” Moving away from what is known, and working in a completely different environment does force you to evolve.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: What year was that?

Linda Rubin: Ah, '82.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: I was wondering if you could tell me about some specific memories that you have of Peter Bingham and Lola Ryan. I would love to hear about what it was like to work with them and teach them!

Linda Rubin: Lola Ryan joined Synergy before Peter Bingham. Lola was an athlete and she was deeply involved in running and competitive rowing before joining Synergy. She taught high school English and she would often adjust some of my language choices....a good thing. She was energetic, a leader, and highly analytical. In group discussions, and other conversations with me, she would instigate productive conversations surrounding the artistic and physical intricacies of the work. She worked diligently in the body work classes and became more physically released, flexible, and articulate. In the improvisation work, she was a positive contributor in advancing and evolving the main focus scenes. She had the patience to actively observe the work, as well as boldly make offers. Lola was fortunate to be a member of a group of dedicated dancers in Synergy at that time. In the late ‘70s, Lola began teaching contact workshops in the Synergy workshops schedule. Peter Bingham joined Synergy during the Weekend Workshop Projects. He had an influential introduction to Synergy’s body work, improvisation, and philosophy via his participation in that weekend. I believe his exposure to the strong dancers in the project was deeply influential and there was no turning him off. Peter began his training with challenges to develop his physical flexibility and articulation. Peter would throw himself into the work without many intellectual or imagistic restraints. He had abundant desire. Peter possessed a natural movement-loving physicality, and he expanded his abilities quickly. He nurtured and evolved a resourceful circle of colleagues through the workshops. The work made total sense to him, he was excited, and I think he could sense his future directions. In the late ‘70s, Peter began leading contact improvisation, and children’s movement workshops in the Synergy workshop schedule. I believe that both Lola and Peter were inspired, in large part, due to being able to dance with an adult group of generous people, with similar talents, and dedication to advancing the work. These people also wanted to be a part of new directions, and that created a sense of excitement, security, and comradery. Similar to Peter and Lola, many other people had a deep level of commitment in advancing the work, translating Synergy concepts into their own voices, and creating their individual career paths.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, in a way Synergy was a jumping-off platform that gave them the tools, resources, the support, and the space even, for people to come together.

Linda Rubin: Yes, people were participating not only for their personal training, but they also felt they “belonged” to a community of dedicated people who were involved in new directions. Advanced dancers had opportunities to perform and share. The performances were held in the studio which was equipped with theatrical lighting that easily transformed the space into an intimate performance space. My interest was for the ordinary person to come into our studio performance space, and see the classes, or performance events. I valued their experiences and feedback. I felt that one doesn’t have to read the critical reviews to see if what they experienced in the performance was similar to what a critic would have experienced. I'm not against critical review by the way, but there was a period through the ‘70s when I lost interest and respect for the conventional system of critical artistic evaluations. In my opinion it lacked arms-length.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: And that’s why speaking to as many people as possible and getting different perspectives on this history is so important.

Linda Rubin: I admire those archivists who are chasing down dance history and successfully archiving it. I have not been actively involved in researching and analysing Vancouver’s dance history.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: And Dance Collection Danse has been a major supporter of that work! What was your connection to contact improvisation? How did contact improvisation play into what Synergy was doing?

Linda Rubin: In the mid ‘70s, Steve Paxton and Nancy Stark Smith came to Vancouver, and held an exciting public contact improv demonstration and we all went. That’s how we were first exposed to contact improvisation, and we just loved it, everybody loved it right away! I amalgamated the basics of contact work into my work, and it became an important extension of my improvisational dance vocabulary. Historically, I was always working on improvising with an awareness of creating a choreographic aesthetic, and aiming for a main focus in advanced work. Integrating the contact improv work into my existing improv vocabulary was so natural and harmonious. The exposure to contact improv immediately inspired people like Bingham and Ryan. I believe contact improv transformed their understanding of what dance could be. People deeply interested in contact improv traveled for more training, usually in the states. Synergy co-hosted several Contact Improv workshops with John Gamble, Nita Little and a RE:UNION workshop, organized by Seamus Linehan, with Steve Paxton, Nancy Stark Smith, Nitta Little, Kurt Siddel, and Danny Lepkoff. Ryan and Bingham became highly skilled and deeply involved in contact work. They taught contact improv workshops within the Synergy schedule.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: I'm curious to hear what you think Synergy's impact on the contemporary dance scene was in Vancouver?

Linda Rubin: From a ‘70s perspective, I feel my work was influential in offering an accessible, health-conscious, non-competitive, artistic, athletic, and safe place for adults to dance together within a community of like-minded people. I know that many people were inspired by their Synergy experiences and went on to create their own groups, dance studios, classes, and performances. Many people were also inspired to study, practice, teach, and make a career in a diverse range of body-based disciplines. Upon further reflection, I suppose that more artists were considering embracing improvisation as a legitimate dance style. The career quest that I was working on since the mid ‘60s was answering the question “is improvisation a viable performing dance style?” I believe other artists were influenced in embracing improvisation as being legitimate. Possibly some artists were holding informal performances and showings “in studio” rather than in a formal theatre setting. The integration of musicians in class and live performance may be another influence. When Lola and Peter were in the workshops the technique body work classes were two hours in length and the improv classes were three hours in length. I know that the longer class/workshop time was unusual in the ‘70s and may have influenced other training modalities.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: There’s an obvious connection between you, and Peter Bingham, and subsequently EDAM, but in some ways, I see commonalities between Synergy’s intentions and Karen [Jamieson]’s.

Linda Rubin: Yes, I certainly can see that there is a common direction in Karen’s and Peter’s work. I did not see any presentations from Peter in the early ‘80s. Peter was involved with his company “Fulcrum” with Andrew Harwood and Helen Clarke. I knew they were pursuing performing careers and international travel gigs. Peter’s independent career was profoundly influenced by his involvement in my work, and his reach, and influence in the Vancouver dance community has been immense. He eventually ran his work out of the same space as Synergy in Western Front. He created performances collaborating with musicians. He offered ongoing classes and his approach to teaching may have been influenced by his time at Synergy. The 80’s were “pre-computer days” and following the Vancouver dance scene “long distance” was not very accessible. I had returned to Vancouver several times to hold a few workshops with Synergy people who had been dancing with me before I left, but I wasn't really in touch with the ‘80s dance scene. Sadly, I left Vancouver before meeting Karen or experiencing any of her work.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: You and Karen approach your choreographic practices very differently. She tries to move away from the visual and is not as interested in aesthetics and optics. However, there's some commonalities that I see between your practice and hers around how you engage with people and work with people. Her practice evolved a lot in the early ‘90s and she moved into community-engaged dance.

Linda Rubin: She works with community groups, right?

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, in the Downtown Eastside. She has been working with the Carnegie Dance Troupe since the mid-2000s and I know that specific space also has a low-barrier for entry into dance and is about being in your body, using your body as a form of expression and healing to work through your own experiences and histories. So, I see that kind of as a commonality between your practices.

Linda Rubin: Yes, I absolutely see the connections with your observations. In our earlier discussions, I emphasized my involvement in aesthetics that are foundational in all creative disciplines. In group work, I have experienced that basic universal forms and structures, and one’s knowledge and application of the elements allows people to move independently–find an entry into their dances, create offerings, make connections, and find resolutions. The basic elements I have found crucial to expanding the work are: space, time, direction, force, flow, relation, size, levels, shape (in no specific order). Individuals can identify their own specific range of elements relative to their practices. The forms/structures that I utilize morph and transform as they are being danced and influenced by the interpreter or group. The elements assist in expanding the depth and range of one’s offerings. Valuing and applying the elements can often reveal and release a person’s limitations, habitual movement choices and often offers them productive insights for advancing their dancing.

In therapeutic settings my focus on visual or choreographic aesthetics is NOT my objective. Instigating movement, personal interactions, and creating a feeling of belonging has always been my focus in therapeutic settings. My therapeutic projects have been in clinical settings with professional therapists observing the processes. In movement therapy settings, I temper and adjust the same improv forms and structures that I teach in my regular workshops. Often, I received feedback that the Synergy workshop materials were very therapeutic–even though they were involved in an aesthetically-driven process.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, yeah.

Linda Rubin: Participants in the ongoing Synergy workshops included a wide scope of people of varying ages and abilities. I experienced that the improv structures and forms provided a common movement and language-base that inspired participants to build inventive and meaningful dance scenes together. Very often the content of the dance scenes revealed universal patterns and emotions... some archetypes. People enjoyed the choice of being able to jump into the dancing, or step out of the dancing at will. For example: if someone was resting and sitting on the side and observing they might become motivated by their observation of the space. They may think “Oh, there's an empty space over there! I'm going to dance in, do a cartwheel, and fall over in glee because there is space for me over there, and I want to dance in that space!” [laughs] Most often other people would join your dancing, inspire a redirect of your original impulses, offer other intentions, and the dance scene would evolve.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, it sounds like you laid a foundation in a lot of ways for what was to come and what has since come to be more accepted and celebrated in dance.

Linda Rubin: Could be. I will take some responsibility for stirring up traditional ways of dancing and for inspiring many people to forge ahead and develop their personal career paths. Today, most choreographers and dance studios require their dancers to be facile in improvisation skills, as well as to execute a variety of choreographic modalities. That is standard practice today. When I was working in Vancouver, studying improvisation was not required. I think it was not even considered a legitimate dance form. A dancer didn't have to know how to improvise in order to dance or become a pro dancer [laughs].

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Are you interested in speaking to why preserving Vancouver’s dance history is important, and if so, what more do you think needs to be done?

Linda Rubin: I feel preserving the history of all art forms is vital. A significant aspect of preserving Vancouver’s dance history is that it ultimately documents Vancouver’s “Dancing Family Tree.” I cannot speak to what more could be done to advance archiving Vancouver’s dance history. Most artists archive their personal documents. Archiving the history provides researched information, especially useful for dancers, academics, and inspiration for inquiring minds. I feel that, in general, young dancers are not deeply interested in dance history. When I was beginning my career, there were few people doing Contemporary, Modern, and Improvisation. When I came in contact with an artist who was involved in those disciplines, I would pick their brain and inquire about their history and information on how they navigated their careers.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, yeah. And ask questions. Stay curious.

Linda Rubin: Yeah. I think there are dance practitioners who are curious about the underpinnings of why and how dance directions evolved. The origins of a new direction and how it influenced advancing future directions is fascinating. I'm always interested in that.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, me too.

Linda Rubin: Preserving Vancouver's Contemporary Dance history is certainly important, and I am happy that I was involved in creating some of Vancouver’s contemporary dance history.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Do you have any connection to Karen Jamieson?

Linda Rubin: I have no connections. At the time of Coming Out of Chaos I am sure that I was not living in Vancouver.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Chaos came out in '82, so you must've moved the same year then.

Linda Rubin: Yes, I left Vancouver in Spring ‘82. After I moved to Saskatchewan I continued to run my own workshops and teach and choreograph for theatre and dance. A very special memory was when I was teaching workshops at 25th Street Theatre School, and one of the young actors was Shawn Hounsell. His talent was obvious and he was deeply interested in modern work. He was considering shifting career directions from theatre to dance. I encouraged him to study in my contemporary dance classes in the Department of Physical Education at the University of Saskatchewan. At that time he was also studying ballet and loving it. I gave him free classes in my privately run “Synergy” workshops as well. Soon he was auditioning to attend the Royal Winnipeg Ballet summer school and then he moved to Winnipeg to study in the professional program at the RWB. Fast forward....Shawn is recognized as one of Canada’s internationally acclaimed choreographers.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Amazing! Very cool.

Linda Rubin: Location does have importance. For me, what matters is not so much where you do your work, but that you pursue your interests and pass on your experiences. You never know who you will share your art form and experiences with and who may rise to prominence. I have been living in Edmonton since 1993 now and spent fifteen years of “excitement” teaching actors in the professional conservatory BFA program at the University of Alberta. Teaching and producing productions with groups of twelve talented performers, every day, over three years, was a fabulous learning and artistic experience. So, very many of the graduates are performing across Canada and many are working in prominent leadership positions. Besides teaching, I fulfilled many independent contracts choreographing productions at the Citadel Theatre, smaller theatre companies, and independent productions.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Are you still involved in the theatre community?

Linda Rubin: Oh yes! The major attraction for me to move to Edmonton was that there were thirteen professional theatre companies running full seasons. Also, Grant MacEwan College had a very established Dance Program. The University of Alberta’s professional programs produced playwrights, designers, actors, and directors who built Edmonton’s vibrant theatre community, as well as contributing to theatre companies across Canada. Besides actors aiming for roles with large theatre companies, many actors are involved in writing, directing, acting, designing, choreographing, filming, and creating their own productions. Many graduates created productions described as highly physical theatrical works. New works often included heightened physical movement, speech, song, dance, and combat. In the past, it was popular for some contemporary dance choreographers to include these disciplines in their choregraphies.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Oh, yeah. I've seen that in the archives [laughs].

Linda Rubin: Many directors and actors who I have taught expanded their creative processes by applying many of my dance-based concepts. They experimented with morphing the concepts and translating them into the needs of their productions. It’s a pliable base to jump off from.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: I wanted to ask you one last thing: what are you working on right now?

Linda Rubin: This past year, I taught an Improvisation workshop for actors in the Theatre Department at Arizona State University, Phoenix. In Edmonton, I was scheduled to do a workshop for Mile Zero Dance, May [2020] and in September [2020], I usually introduce Contact Improvisation into the dance program at the Victoria School of the Arts. Both projects were Covid-19 canceled.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Edmonton is lucky to have you!

Linda Rubin: I am deeply thankful that I have had opportunities to work as a teacher and choreographer in many theatre companies with mandates ranging from experimental new works to traditional productions. In the dance community, I have been engaged in teaching improvisation, mentoring, and rehearsal direction.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: That’s great.

Linda Rubin: I was gardening throughout the summer and the highlights of my social interactions were hang-outs on my veranda or small gatherings at my neighbours fire pits. Because of the pandemic, I was not pursuing or even discussing future projects.

Emma Metcalfe Hurst: Yeah, I understand. It’s hard to look ahead right now! Well, I really appreciate talking to you, Linda. It’s such a treat to be able to interview you, as someone who contributed so much to building the foundations for the Coming Out of Chaos folks, and Vancouver dance. Thank you!